Warrior General Games

Could anyone show any real concrete differences in a LB with single cap vs. double cap vision?

Originally posted by rlawrence
Could anyone show any real concrete differences in a LB with single cap vs. double cap vision?

No. There are far too many variables in a typical play and there is no way to run a controlled test.

surely someone could get to first cap, hold on to SP, watch performance for 4-5 levels, then bring to 2nd cap and watch performance for a few more games ...

is there such thing as too much vision for an LB?
I have an LOLB with 58 vision, and it seems to me that he always takes a huge jump left at the start of run plays to the right and then he can't beat the RB to the edge.

The problem is, in planning a non-boosting LB, that you just can't do everything.

SP starts getting mighty scarce by lvl 24. I was wondering if specifically the MLB could 'do' with 1st cap vision to make room for SP in places like strength and tackling.

Props to cmj33, he showed me these another time when I was debating whether or not to boost my vision to 60, here are some plays pre and post 60 vision


Before 60 vision
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=284302&pbp_id=12150816slow play recognition here.

and here
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=284302&pbp_id=12150848

Post- Watch how fast Hightower recognizes run and breaks from his back pedal here.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=286785&pbp_id=12740936

and stays with a faster HB here.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=286785&pbp_id=12741083

Originally posted by Virgin Goldstandard
Props to cmj33, he showed me these another time when I was debating whether or not to boost my vision to 60, here are some plays pre and post 60 vision


Before 60 vision
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=284302&pbp_id=12150816slow play recognition here.

and here
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=284302&pbp_id=12150848

Post- Watch how fast Hightower recognizes run and breaks from his back pedal here.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=286785&pbp_id=12740936

and stays with a faster HB here.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=286785&pbp_id=12741083

Those are just cherry picked plays that provide no real evidence. I looked through his game log from last season and here are some of his plays from games even before the pre 60 vision plays you posted:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=231508&pbp_id=6462743
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=231508&pbp_id=6463104
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=231508&pbp_id=6462200

In my opinion he's reacting to the run pre 60 vision in the same manner as those plays you posted of him post 60 vision.

Originally posted by Viscount
Originally posted by Virgin Goldstandard

Props to cmj33, he showed me these another time when I was debating whether or not to boost my vision to 60, here are some plays pre and post 60 vision


Before 60 vision
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=284302&pbp_id=12150816slow play recognition here.

and here
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=284302&pbp_id=12150848

Post- Watch how fast Hightower recognizes run and breaks from his back pedal here.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=286785&pbp_id=12740936

and stays with a faster HB here.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=286785&pbp_id=12741083

Those are just cherry picked plays that provide no real evidence. I looked through his game log from last season and here are some of his plays from games even before the pre 60 vision plays you posted:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=231508&pbp_id=6462743
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=231508&pbp_id=6463104
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=231508&pbp_id=6462200

In my opinion he's reacting to the run pre 60 vision in the same manner as those plays you posted of him post 60 vision.

exactly not much gained from higher vision at this point. While capped vision is great, bring it beyond that is just hindering your overall performance. I.E. like getting more str or tackling.

Originally posted by UnderDogs
[exactly not much gained from higher vision at this point. While capped vision is great, bring it beyond that is just hindering your overall performance. I.E. like getting more str or tackling.


So then why 2nd cap it as a CB, but not as a LB? Is 60 vision hindering a CB too then?

I am very interested in the results of this study, but honestly, I can see it going in circles all day. Who's to say that vision only affects breaks to the ballcarrier? Maybe it has a factor in tackling angle? Bort's hinted that meeting a HB head-on versus hitting him from the side affects the tackling roll, and if that's the case, vision can play a role in overcoming any angle deficiencies.

Also, for the people that has built WR's, vision seems to play a role in performance there as well. If that's the case, then it could very well play a factor in the PD/Int rolls as well. My slowbuilding LB is a tackle/PD animal, and taking vision to 60 was one of the first things I did (after spd/agi obviously). Is his prowess in PD's a factor of early emphasis on vision or moreso a product of the slowbuild? It's too hard to differentiate without a controlled test environment. In Rod Long's thread, he is one of the biggest advocates of vision and his LB's are living up to that proclamation, but is it because of vision or just generally well-built LB's? Wheres the ubiquitous and insightful Deathblade absolutely hates it..... *shrug* Pick a side I guess.

Originally posted by wallysmith
I am very interested in the results of this study, but honestly, I can see it going in circles all day. Who's to say that vision only affects breaks to the ballcarrier? Maybe it has a factor in tackling angle? Bort's hinted that meeting a HB head-on versus hitting him from the side affects the tackling roll, and if that's the case, vision can play a role in overcoming any angle deficiencies.

Also, for the people that has built WR's, vision seems to play a role in performance there as well. If that's the case, then it could very well play a factor in the PD/Int rolls as well. My slowbuilding LB is a tackle/PD animal, and taking vision to 60 was one of the first things I did (after spd/agi obviously). Is his prowess in PD's a factor of early emphasis on vision or moreso a product of the slowbuild? It's too hard to differentiate without a controlled test environment. In Rod Long's thread, he is one of the biggest advocates of vision and his LB's are living up to that proclamation, but is it because of vision or just generally well-built LB's? Wheres the ubiquitous and insightful Deathblade absolutely hates it..... *shrug* Pick a side I guess.

Its rare that we agree Wally but I think your spot on. Even though I'm leaning pro vision, I believe its yet to be seen how great of an effect it has. But thats an argument you can have for most Attributes. I dont believe there is a single attribute "fix" or "booster", its a combination of things. We just luck up and mix right for half a season or miss the mark and hit later on with something else.

Originally posted by Bayemon
Originally posted by UnderDogs

[exactly not much gained from higher vision at this point. While capped vision is great, bring it beyond that is just hindering your overall performance. I.E. like getting more str or tackling.


So then why 2nd cap it as a CB, but not as a LB? Is 60 vision hindering a CB too then?

On the longer coverage where the CBs get 2 shots at a PD/INT, the higher VIS produces hard results. On a short route as a LB, you probably wont get as much from it.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=290710

Guess what my vision is.

Originally posted by Combatt
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=290710

Guess what my vision is.

30

Originally posted by Bayemon
Originally posted by UnderDogs

[exactly not much gained from higher vision at this point. While capped vision is great, bring it beyond that is just hindering your overall performance. I.E. like getting more str or tackling.


So then why 2nd cap it as a CB, but not as a LB? Is 60 vision hindering a CB too then?

It's important for a CB because it positively effects it's "can I catch" and pass deflection rolls, which are obviously very important for a CB. It has some usefulness for a LB, but not nearly as much because the returns in run defense post 48 would appear to be negligible, and you simply aren't in coverage enough for it to matter too much.