Warrior General Games

I have a wide receiver with 55speed/53agility and 8 points in route running......now 8 points in route running costs A LOT of points....

look at his speed (rich gunnell) vs my strong safety who only has 63speed/57agility. The WR has 3 in first step and 1 in quick cut...the safety only has 3 in change direction (2 in closing speed, but you KNOW when that goes off- he is incredibly fast when that happens, which isn't in this play)


so...first replay is my receiver...second is my safety- check out the speed difference, embarrassing for route running.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=275735&pbp_id=11377756

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=219282&pbp_id=8307797

You only have 50 speed and agility, what do you expect?

The Route Run SA says it's for WRs who are not very fast or agile. It doesn't says it for slow players, I think you need at least reasonably good speed for it to be effective.

Since when is 55 speed "slow" ? In fact, I think that's EXACTLY what route running should be for- people who aren't getting speed up to 60/70 in order to be a blazing receiver. It's meant for possession receivers who will sacrifice big runs after the catch for getting open with crisp routes.

If route running doesn't make up 8points of speed and 4 points of agility...when it has 8 fockin points thrown in it, what's the point?

55 speed is slow, I don't know where people seem to get this notion that soft capping an attribute means it's quite high, it's not.

Do you have any equipment in those attributes?

Speaking from experience, get speed to the 60s at the very least then see how effective Route Run is.

Well, 55 speed is low for any type of level 31 WR. A possession WR should probably have about 67-75ish speed at that point in their build and even that seems a little on the low side.

Somethng else you have to concider when you compare the 2 like that.
1st - Stamina of both players
2nd - Both plays happened in the middle of the 1st Q, however.....

Your WR was on his 3 drive of the game already, after the other team whet 3 and out. He got no time to regain any energy after a fast 3 and out by the other teams offense (which took less than one minute off the game clock) and went right back out their with minimal energy gain.

Your SS was only on his second drive and plus, since your offense had a productive 2nd drive, they took off 6 full minutes from the game clock before your player had to go back on the field. Thus allowing him to regain additional energy.

Originally posted by Viscount
55 speed is slow, I don't know where people seem to get this notion that soft capping an attribute means it's quite high, it's not.

Do you have any equipment in those attributes?

Speaking from experience, get speed to the 60s at the very least then see how effective Route Run is.

Why would route run all of a sudden make a bigger impact on the players speed once he gets to 60? That is OPPOSITE what intuition tells you should happen. That's my gripe- Route run costs A LOT of points once you get up past 5- in order for it to logically make sense to spend points on, it has to make a bigger return than spending those points on speed/agility would. As it stands- I could have taken all the points from route run and thrown them into speed and agility, gotten it up near what my SS is, and my WR would be FASTER in every aspect of the player, before the catch, after the catch. What is the point of that? Route run is supposed to say "yes you are going to be slow after the catch- but you will be fast while running a route" It is supposed to let you focus on other attributes- getting catching in 70's, jumping into 50's,60's, vision very high, etc etc.

As it stands now I completely regret spending ANY points on route running and should have just dumped them all into speed/agility and made my player infinitely better in every aspect of the play- that's my gripe. It's not like I completely ignored speed/agility.

See my second post. This is a play with your WR with full energy against the same defensive players. Seems faster too me.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=275735&pbp_id=11376785

I went through my old threads to give you an example of Route Run working.

These are replays of my now retired WR with 65 speed, 51 agility and 5 Route Run versus a WR with 71 speed and 51 agility (McLovin McDaniels).

You can clearly see my WR accelerates faster:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=180017&pbp_id=9478211
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=180017&pbp_id=9479741
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=180014&pbp_id=8909988

Originally posted by DennisValet

Why would route run all of a sudden make a bigger impact on the players speed once he gets to 60? That is OPPOSITE what intuition tells you should happen. That's my gripe- Route run costs A LOT of points once you get up past 5- in order for it to logically make sense to spend points on, it has to make a bigger return than spending those points on speed/agility would. As it stands- I could have taken all the points from route run and thrown them into speed and agility, gotten it up near what my SS is, and my WR would be FASTER in every aspect of the player, before the catch, after the catch. What is the point of that? Route run is supposed to say "yes you are going to be slow after the catch- but you will be fast while running a route" It is supposed to let you focus on other attributes- getting catching in 70's, jumping into 50's,60's, vision very high, etc etc.

As it stands now I completely regret spending ANY points on route running and should have just dumped them all into speed/agility and made my player infinitely better in every aspect of the play- that's my gripe. It's not like I completely ignored speed/agility.

I fully understand your frustration, but let's look at it this way:
If 100 speed is fast, 110 is very fast and low speed is 70, you save a ton of points putting 40 into route run to take it to level 10 than to spend 40 points and not get to 100 speed.

Yes you are right it is a lousy return for your level of speed and agility, but when you and he competition get higher speed, that is when RR starts to be more viable from a skill point value point of view.

I suppose that makes sense- once you get to the point where you have to spend lots of skill points to improve speed by 1 route running gives a larger return. I still think the skill is busted in the fact that it does not allow a player to make something OTHER than speed/agility his primary attribute, which is the purpose.

An SA that's a total waste...I'm shocked...absolutely shocked. :|

If you didn't already know, let this be a lesson to you. SAs are, for the most part, not worth much. They aren't going to make your possession receiver get open. They aren't going to turn your speedster with low catching into a catching machine. At most, they'll help you a little every once in a while. Some SAs seem to be more effective than others (for a WR, that would be First Step), but NO SA will ever do more for you than putting points into the attributes. The attributes are a constant, the SAs, like you said, fire every once in a while (it seems). SAs are very tempting, but the fact that Bort won't come out and explain exactly how they work tells you something (if you can't figure it out, just keep going the SA route on your guys).

I use them, but I have a specific strategy for them and it doesn't start until lvl 32 (although it sure is tempting to start early). SAs are like icing on a cake. You have to bake the cake first. Meaning you have to build your base attributes first, then add the SAs.

I was where you are last season with a WR (lvl 35) and I retired him. No point trying to fix a guy at that level (it would take forever). So I started over much wiser for the experience.

Originally posted by DennisValet
I suppose that makes sense- once you get to the point where you have to spend lots of skill points to improve speed by 1 route running gives a larger return. I still think the skill is busted in the fact that it does not allow a player to make something OTHER than speed/agility his primary attribute, which is the purpose.



I would agree to a point.

I think for a possession ideally you'd get 60 speed, 60 agility and 60 catching as your base to work from where as a speed build would take speed and possibly agility higher while leaving catching at the 1st cap and would look like 70, 60, 48. You can't really neglect speed like a speedster can't really neglect catching, you need both, just not as much as the other guy.

FYI- I'd get your speed and agility to the average level of CBs in your league, then get RR up rather than do what speedsters do and go past the levels of CBs with speed.

Originally posted by Kramer
Some SAs seem to be more effective than others (for a WR, that would be First Step), but NO SA will ever do more for you than putting points into the attributes.

I use them, but I have a specific strategy for them and it doesn't start until lvl 32 (although it sure is tempting to start early). SAs are like icing on a cake. You have to bake the cake first. Meaning you have to build your base attributes first, then add the SAs.

I was where you are last season with a WR (lvl 35) and I retired him. No point trying to fix a guy at that level (it would take forever). So I started over much wiser for the experience.

In response to:

1st paragraph- It completely contradicts your second paragraph which is the correct statement. If an SA never did more than raising an attribute you wouldn't have invested in them, duh? You did because there is a point where the cost to raise the attribute versus and its ROI (return on investment) becomes less than the ROI on SAs.

SAs are the icing on attributes, if you have triple capped catching by level 15 (example, don't know if it is possible), by all means load up the possession SAs that help with catching because the ROI on taking more catching probably isn't going to be as effective as spending those points on the SAs.

I wouldn't suggest the OP to retire his build. You're fine, just maximize the SAs you have invested in by getting the attributes they effect up.

Even posession guys need speed. Anyways RR is good.