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Forum > Position Talk > CB Club > Advanced Equipment v. Old Equipment decision
turftoe
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Which would you go with:

4 pieces of equipment that give you +5% to pass deflection each (for a total of +20%) or 4 pieces of equipment that give you +16 to your base speed?

I'm halfway home on the advanced EQ and am wondering if it's worth it to keep trying to find more PD equipment or the mythical +3 speed & +1 Sticky Hands my LB rolled 2 days ago.
Last edited Sep 21, 2008 08:08:26
 
Ahrens858
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I just keep my regular equipment. Seems to be a better bonus than any advanced equipment ive gotten.
 
Vermillion
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but they could be upgraded. so that's like 20% pass deflection and 12 to your base speed. but it would take hell of time to upgrade them. o.o
 
brock86
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But it takes way too long to upgrade the advanced stuff (10 tokens = 1.5 upgrades/season).. and you could get 4 SP instead of that +1.5 to an attribute, which is probably more valuable.
 
LostPeon
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Originally posted by brock86
But it takes way too long to upgrade the advanced stuff (10 tokens = 1.5 upgrades/season).. and you could get 4 SP instead of that +1.5 to an attribute, which is probably more valuable.


In the long run, advanced equipment will be the way to go. Not all 4 pieces, necessarily, but one or two.

Sure, you can get the 4 SP instead of upgrading your equipment, but there's going to come a time when that +1 attribute on your equipment will do infinitely more than 4 SP could.

It may seem mostly useless now, but advanced equipment will become more useful if you have the patience to wait for its usefulness to come.
 
brock86
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Yes, but you also have to think about the difference vs regular equipment, which already have +more to an attribute.

[Note: 1 seasons' XP, post lvl 30 = 3*1000 (boosting) + 40 * 25 (daily) + 16 * 100 (game) = 5600 = ~5.5 levels/season]

Say you're a lvl 30 booster, started in season 1, and find a piece with +3 to something good (speed/agility/vision). That +3 counts as the first level of equipment, so fully upgraded it will be +2 compared to normal equipment. But at 32, your normal equipment will be at +5, so you're really getting -2 net to your attribs, in exchange for maybe a good 2nd bonus (+1 Shutdown, or +5% Intercept/Fumbling/Deflecting, if you're incredibly lucky enough to find a piece like that).

2 seasons later (S7), you could upgrade your custom a max of 3 times, to +6, but you'll now be lvl 41 and have +6 standard equipment available anyways - and you've given up 8 SP.

2 more seasons (S9), you're lvl 52, and thus have +7 normal equipment available. Your advance item gets another +3, pushing it to +9, so now your 1 advanced piece is fully upgraded and a massive +2 stat & whatever other bonus it has better than normal equipment. It's cost 16 SP to get here, so you're breaking even if that stat is going above the 8:1 cap, which according to some slow building teammates of mine is 83.26. That seems pretty reasonable, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if people were over 90 by that point.

Season 10, you'll start at 57.5 and have access to lvl 56 equipment, for +8 standard. That means another 10 tokens to boost the advanced, so with the other 6 you can get 1 SP. The pure SP-buyer will get 4 more SP, bringing him to a total of 20 by the end of season 10 - +19 SP on you that could've been spent anywhere else. Your net +2 is now only worth it past the 9.5:1 cap (9:1 = 85.59, 10:1 = 87.61).

By season 11, your player will be in decline, whatever that means. You'll be starting at lvl 63, which means lvl 64 equipment (+9) will become available sometime during the season, so that's another 10 tokens down the drain to keep your massive +2 alive. The SP-buyer gets +3 net SP, for a total of +22 SP compared to you, so the +2 you're getting from the advanced needs to be past the 11:1 cap.

Season 12 is great, except for the further player decline. +5.5 more levels means you're lvl 68.5, so no new equipment yet! You can buy all 4 SPs, along with your SP-buying buddy, and stay at the 11:1 relative need.

So yes, your 1 piece of Advanced equipment will be better than just buying SPs - and just in time for your player to start entering the 'decline' phase of his career, as well! Plus you've got that nifty little +1 to an SA, or +3-5% to something.. that is assuming you shit four leaf clovers and are lucky enough to find a piece of advanced equipment that good. Otherwise you'll be spending that extra time training on normal and shopping for that 1 truly excellent piece of equipment, all the while falling further behind the SP-buying types. I hope that +1 SA you got is worth a lot of SP to make up for it!

In the case of a newbie starting out, it's about the same. You'll probably want to slow build for at least the first season in the D-Leagues, which means you'll be using normal training (much better for slow building since you can focus on 1 attribute). Then, when you start shopping, you won't be able to find any items as good; +2 will probably be the maximum amount to a stat you can find at that level, and the SAs/other boosts won't be as good either. But let's assume you saved up a ton of shopping tokens while slow building, and find something decent right away. If you settle for +1 net gain vs normal equipment, then that +1 has to be worth the entire amount of SPs you'll miss out on over the SP-buying option, and it'll still take several seasons for that 1 piece to catch up to regular stuff. And once it is upgraded, you'll get around +1 equipment level every 2 seasons, so every 2 seasons it'll fall 3 more SPs behind, just like above.


tl;dr: Advanced equipment in it's current state is barely worth the hassle at higher levels (takes too long to compete with normal stuff), and definitely not worth it at lower levels (nothing good's available). Multiple pieces definitely aren't worth it since they'll never be competitive.
 
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+1 To what Brock said. Id much rather use the equip I have, while gaining almost an extra boost every season.(4 SPs) Along with4 games with a temporary +5 to any attribute.
The equipment +1 can be more valuable in the long run, but honestly, this is not Warcraft, this is football.

Lately I have really begun to question Borts motives for doing some of these things, it just football and he is making into something else.
Last edited Sep 23, 2008 18:03:02
 
brock86
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Well, maybe Bort's trying to make players' careers more realistic - some just don't want to retire for whatever reason. I mean, it makes you wonder if the whole Brett Favre thing happened because he'd spent too much time upgrading his advanced equipment and didn't want to let it all go to waste
 
LionsLover
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Originally posted by brock86
Yes, but you also have to think about the difference vs regular equipment, which already have +more to an attribute.

[Note: 1 seasons' XP, post lvl 30 = 3*1000 (boosting) + 40 * 25 (daily) + 16 * 100 (game) = 5600 = ~5.5 levels/season]

Say you're a lvl 30 booster, started in season 1, and find a piece with +3 to something good (speed/agility/vision). That +3 counts as the first level of equipment, so fully upgraded it will be +2 compared to normal equipment. But at 32, your normal equipment will be at +5, so you're really getting -2 net to your attribs, in exchange for maybe a good 2nd bonus (+1 Shutdown, or +5% Intercept/Fumbling/Deflecting, if you're incredibly lucky enough to find a piece like that).

2 seasons later (S7), you could upgrade your custom a max of 3 times, to +6, but you'll now be lvl 41 and have +6 standard equipment available anyways - and you've given up 8 SP.

2 more seasons (S9), you're lvl 52, and thus have +7 normal equipment available. Your advance item gets another +3, pushing it to +9, so now your 1 advanced piece is fully upgraded and a massive +2 stat & whatever other bonus it has better than normal equipment. It's cost 16 SP to get here, so you're breaking even if that stat is going above the 8:1 cap, which according to some slow building teammates of mine is 83.26. That seems pretty reasonable, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if people were over 90 by that point.

Season 10, you'll start at 57.5 and have access to lvl 56 equipment, for +8 standard. That means another 10 tokens to boost the advanced, so with the other 6 you can get 1 SP. The pure SP-buyer will get 4 more SP, bringing him to a total of 20 by the end of season 10 - +19 SP on you that could've been spent anywhere else. Your net +2 is now only worth it past the 9.5:1 cap (9:1 = 85.59, 10:1 = 87.61).

By season 11, your player will be in decline, whatever that means. You'll be starting at lvl 63, which means lvl 64 equipment (+9) will become available sometime during the season, so that's another 10 tokens down the drain to keep your massive +2 alive. The SP-buyer gets +3 net SP, for a total of +22 SP compared to you, so the +2 you're getting from the advanced needs to be past the 11:1 cap.

Season 12 is great, except for the further player decline. +5.5 more levels means you're lvl 68.5, so no new equipment yet! You can buy all 4 SPs, along with your SP-buying buddy, and stay at the 11:1 relative need.

So yes, your 1 piece of Advanced equipment will be better than just buying SPs - and just in time for your player to start entering the 'decline' phase of his career, as well! Plus you've got that nifty little +1 to an SA, or +3-5% to something.. that is assuming you shit four leaf clovers and are lucky enough to find a piece of advanced equipment that good. Otherwise you'll be spending that extra time training on normal and shopping for that 1 truly excellent piece of equipment, all the while falling further behind the SP-buying types. I hope that +1 SA you got is worth a lot of SP to make up for it!

In the case of a newbie starting out, it's about the same. You'll probably want to slow build for at least the first season in the D-Leagues, which means you'll be using normal training (much better for slow building since you can focus on 1 attribute). Then, when you start shopping, you won't be able to find any items as good; +2 will probably be the maximum amount to a stat you can find at that level, and the SAs/other boosts won't be as good either. But let's assume you saved up a ton of shopping tokens while slow building, and find something decent right away. If you settle for +1 net gain vs normal equipment, then that +1 has to be worth the entire amount of SPs you'll miss out on over the SP-buying option, and it'll still take several seasons for that 1 piece to catch up to regular stuff. And once it is upgraded, you'll get around +1 equipment level every 2 seasons, so every 2 seasons it'll fall 3 more SPs behind, just like above.


tl;dr: Advanced equipment in it's current state is barely worth the hassle at higher levels (takes too long to compete with normal stuff), and definitely not worth it at lower levels (nothing good's available). Multiple pieces definitely aren't worth it since they'll never be competitive.


These numbers are horribly wrong. There is no way a level 41 levels to 52 in one season. A level 31 levels to about 37 or 38 tops. The highest level players have at most level 40 for 4 seasons. And that's counting the first season as being a 15 level season.
 
LionsLover
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Originally posted by brock86
Well, maybe Bort's trying to make players' careers more realistic - some just don't want to retire for whatever reason. I mean, it makes you wonder if the whole Brett Favre thing happened because he'd spent too much time upgrading his advanced equipment and didn't want to let it all go to waste


Nah his Vision dropped and he couldn't see what his life would be like without football.
 
Link
 
Originally posted by brock86
Well, maybe Bort's trying to make players' careers more realistic - some just don't want to retire for whatever reason. I mean, it makes you wonder if the whole Brett Favre thing happened because he'd spent too much time upgrading his advanced equipment and didn't want to let it all go to waste


Ya know! I never thought of that, damn, atleast Ill have that card in my pocket from now on. He shoulda stayed retired or maybe he coulda cashed in, got his flexies back, and made a CB...Seems interceptions come naturally to him anyway.
 
TheZaba
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Originally posted by MattMan Firespot
Originally posted by brock86

Well, maybe
Bort's trying to make players' careers more realistic - some just don't
want to retire for whatever reason. I mean, it makes you wonder if the
whole Brett Favre thing happened because he'd spent too much time
upgrading his advanced equipment and didn't want to let it all go to
waste


Ya
know! I never thought of that, damn, atleast Ill have that card in my
pocket from now on. He shoulda stayed retired or maybe he coulda cashed
in, got his flexies back, and made a CB...Seems interceptions come
naturally to him anyway.


BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
 
brock86
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Originally posted by LionsLover
These numbers are horribly wrong. There is no way a level 41 levels to 52 in one season. A level 31 levels to about 37 or 38 tops. The highest level players have at most level 40 for 4 seasons. And that's counting the first season as being a 15 level season.


Read again, I clearly said "2 more seasons" not one, and worked out the XP post-30. But yes, the time frames are pretty rough, IIRC I had a lot of coffee before writing that one up so there are bound to be a few inconsistencies.. for example I'm not sure if I meant you'd start at x level, meaning equipment upgrades happened the past season, or if you'd get it that season. Still, you can easily take out the following numbers:

1) Loss of 4 SP per season spent 'catching up' in upgrades
2) Loss of 2.5 SP per season spent upgrading once caught up
3) No loss in a season where you don't get an equipment upgrade

...and that's not counting time spent looking for that great piece of gear you need to make it a tiny bit worth while. Or the fact that that tiny benefit only comes after a long time, and probably won't be around long enough to make up for the time spent getting there, in which you were behind.
 


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